https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uQKuHC_sDI#t=136 "autojump for stairs". I assume this implies you don't have autojump if not in stairs. From what I've been told defrag has a lowered max accel cap for if you hold jump while airborne.. will this game have that aswell? What are the arguments for not having autojump always? Waking up family members/roomates if you have a loud keyboard will be an issue, so I'm guessing there are some valid points to this, that I'm just not seeing :P
Hehe :DThere's no accel cap type stuff in RIK. That's all gone, so there's no penalty at all for using the autojump. Lil busy atm but can elaborate more later, I thought there was a topic for this alreayd, but seems that discussion was before this forum :D In any case, we ended up on disallowing the full autojump, as I said, can post some highlights of it later.
Allright.Yea, more info would be great. I would like to know what to tell my pissed of gf when i wake her up every night! :p
There's no accel cap in Defrag, at least not Defrag specifically. There's a bit of a bug (or not a bug) that causes you to gain almost no speed while +moveup is held down. It applies to any Q3 mod, it's just that Defrag is the movement mod and so we know everything about movement.I don't feel strongly one way or another with regards to what basically amounts to the "lowmoveup" cheat in Defrag being a feature in this game, so long as autojump is not ever a thing (stairs is reasonable, especially if there's more than two possible jumps, similar to Reflex). It is a very important skill to press +moveup for as little time as possible in Defrag strafing, and it's actually one of the main factors that holds back a lot of newbie or somewhat experienced strafers, but this is a new game, and I'm open to new things.
so long as autojump is not ever a thingby KittenIgnition
I fail to see where you argue for why you feel this way
with the way movement is at the moment, i dont think full autojump would work well. It would make crouch slides, half jumps and wall jumps conflict with each other a bit. With some tweak of the controls / modifier it might work. Autojump does work on the stairs ATM. Holding space will jump / slide you up the stairs.
Actually we already had a version with full AJ, where you hold it down to autojump. You just gotta not use it (release space) then click it again when you're ready to release the cs\sr. Works perfectly good. Or rather, worked :p
Get a more quiet keyboard or something! :p Will post some more info later ;)
Ok, some more info about this. (AJ = Autojump)First off, the "accel" thing that happens in defrag and most q3 based games\mods when you hold jump down, doesn't happen in RIK. The input handling is new. Yes, this takes away something that requires some "skill" but this just isn't up for discussion, there's no chance at all I'll implement that in RIK.Partial autojump will be included. Again one could argue this also takes away some skill requirement, but this as well is not up for discussion.. :)Partial autojump works on stairs, ramps and "box doublejumps". As long as you haven't started falling, you can keep holding space to do a new jump, see image below.![Image]()
Full autojump however, is another story. This means that you can just keep holding the jump key down, and you'll keep jumping until you release it. We had this enabled, and was tbh quite optimistic towards including it. But in the end decided not to. I don't remember all the arguments, so would rather hear what arguments you got FOR it.. :P (aside from annoyed girlfriends, seeing as that would be an extremely rare scenario for RIK players :mrgreen: ). Some of the most basic reasoning for it though, paraphrasing arcaon, is that it's a sort of inherent satisfaction in seeing your key presses take action on the screen. Like cause -> event type of stuff, he explained it better though.. Basically it gives a more feel / depth to the jumping, if you have to actually jump, as opposed to just holding down a button..
Full autojump however, is another story. This means that you can just keep holding the jump key down, and you'll keep jumping until you release it. We had this enabled, and was tbh quite optimistic towards including it. But in the end decided not to. I don't remember all the arguments, so would rather hear what arguments you got FOR it.. :P (aside from annoyed girlfriends, seeing as that would be an extremely rare scenario for RIK players :mrgreen: ). Some of the most basic reasoning for it though, paraphrasing arcaon, is that it's a sort of inherent satisfaction in seeing your key presses take action on the screen. Like cause -> event type of stuff, he explained it better though.. Basically it gives a more feel / depth to the jumping, if you have to actually jump, as opposed to just holding down a button.. 
I recall we dismissed it because jumping doesn't feel like jumping if you don't press the button. After all it's the key feature of the whole game, if it wouldn't feel right, it would be pretty lame. For the noise issue there already are plenty solutions: Don't play when others sleep, move on your own, bind jump to mouse, get less noisy keyboard, or simply don't tap the keys but instead press them down calmly.
Allright, what I'm hearing here is a bunch of arguments for why you guys prefer not to use autojump, and I get what you're saying. But I don't get why this isn't something people get to choose on a per player basis, since there is no skill involved in it- it's just a matter of personal preference.I come from Warsow, as you probably know by now, and for the brief time I tried QL and Defrag, the non-autojump thing just felt as a (HUGE) nuisance. (To be fair, the stairs/double jumps definitely bugged me the most)What I'm saying is, I've never built a personal preference toward pressing jump over and over and over (<- read this 5 billion more times) whilst playing, but rather I've built a STRONG personal preference to the opposite.
It would make crouch slides, half jumps and wall jumps conflict with each other a bit.by Piercy
In Warsow, you can hold jump whilst walljumping (no risk of conflict there) but not when you want to dash (read halfjump) and not when you want to duck (read slide). Letting go of your jump key for certain stunts is a breeze to get used to, so wouldn't be a problem, I assure you.
I get your point of view on this, Im almost even inclined to agree. But I do feel we've made some arguments that are more than just about our preferences.. And there is still some skill in it, not much but a little. I think the whole feel/depth argument is the heaviest weighing one so far. Dont think of it like an argument based on what WE feel about it, the argument came from a general human-psychology-type of view, not that we ourselves dont like it. Hupo even argued FOR including it..
Ps, halfjumps arent actually comparable to dash, if thats what you meant above?
Add more flags on records.H -> HelperA -> Autojump:D
S -> strafe :p
Ps, halfjumps arent actually comparable to dash, if thats what you meant above?by Dinius
I compared dash to halfjumps the same way I did sliding to duck :p. Totally different functions ofc, but both would be used in a situation where your feet are on the ground.
And I still do view it as a personal preference, even if that preference has it's basis in basic psychology :PDisabled by default, if you want people to have that interactive experience (from my experience, most people never even look through their available options, at least not while so new to the game that their still building their initial opinion about it), but still make it available for those of us used to it, is still what I'd like to see. But yea, just wanted to voice my opinion on this, choose what you will, I won't complain :p I set the status to "maybe" for now, meaning I'm not discarding it, but I won't be including it right away either. But it isn't final, and it's not like it would hurt anyone to add it in on a later point. But the alpha coming in a couple weeks or so won't have it. Feel free to come with some hugely awesome arguments meanwhile though, but for now I'm "putting it on ice" so to say :p:)
If I`m reading this right, you can auto-jump for consecutive double-jumps, just like you would up stairs. If anyone can remember this far back, like the box jumps up to mega on q2dm1. Essentially, it's a "hold jump to climb" type thing, yes?I'm also down in the non-AJ for regular movement camp, and it's purely psychological. I don't care about the minute skills involved, but it definitely feels better without the auto-jump. That essential rhythm that every Quake player knows. It's one of the reasons they do it: running around like that is relaxing, and a big part of that is tapping.And I say that as a m2 jumping pleb.
Hehe, and yeah, you're reading it right :)
I'm very used with both styles, from many years of both quake and warsow. Both solutions is something you need to get used to and I don't feel they are any different skillwise once you get past a certain level. Not getting feedback from your actions is a matter of hours of getting used to, and if this is an option you don't have to get used to it if you don't want.Not introducing it to defrag kinda makes sense. You only use direction keys and one jump key. Only occasionally will you use the crouch key, and even when you do most of the times this will slow you down.However, Warsow/ProjektRIK introduces new techniques that will require more key presses. This makes getting past the very basics of learning the controls quite overwhelming. Technical parts including wall jumps, regular jumps, half jumps and crouch sliding adds a lot of complexity.Autojump could be a way to let new players focus on techniques rather than basic controls and get cramping fingers.
With autojump you basically never fail a jump. Without, you might very few times click too late for the jump and hence lose speed. I think that learning to press the buttons in correct times should be one of the first things to learn for new players, so far that reason I'd say no autojump.
With autojump you basically never fail a jump. Without, you might very few times click too late for the jump and hence lose speed. I think that learning to press the buttons in correct times should be one of the first things to learn for new players, so far that reason I'd say no autojump.This would be very true if the plan was to implement a strict timing window, where you would basically have to, or at least benefit from, only pressing a jump few frames before landing. What's being implemented, however, if I understood it correctly, is a method that would allow you to re-press the jump key immediately after jumping, keep it held til you land, and you'd still get a jump. Not much sense of timing, and thus basically 0 skill, required for that..by huPo
From what I can see, the "partial" autojump idea may also seem random at times. Having a route where you're right on the verge on starting to descend when landing in, say, a stair, could require you to have to re-press jump to execute the first stair jump in some runs, but not in others..
Yeah there's a certain time where you can't always rely on it, which is just good imo. But I wouldn't call it random at all, if you're in that specific window where the autojump wouldn't always "work", you have more than enough time to simply press jump again. The whole reason for the partial autojump is to remove those times you need to really press jump rapidly, especially if it's many times in a row.
I think we'll skip on this for the time being. It's much better to add in features like this later on if we realize we want it after all, as opposed to adding them now and then regretting it later :)
Yeah there's a certain time where you can't always rely on it, which is just good imo. But I wouldn't call it random at all, if you're in that specific window where the autojump wouldn't always "work", you have more than enough time to simply press jump again. The whole reason for the partial autojump is to remove those times you need to really press jump rapidly, especially if it's many times in a row.by Dinius
I was solely thinking from a first-timers perspective. The time it takes to start descending is definitely enough time to re-press the key, yea :P
let it be configurable... I would use full autojump...
If it is configurable, it would be stupid not to use it seeing as it makes things harder.